FN 5.7 Pistol
According to the ATF, responding to a press release from the Brady Campaign to End Handgun Violence, the “SS196” pistol cartridge for the FN 5.7 pistol is not armor piercing.
First, a gun picture:
Ah, yes, welcome to the plastic fantastic twenty-first century.
Second, the Brady claims:
The gun, the Five-SeveN handgun manufactured by FN Herstal of Belgium, is lightweight and easily concealable. IBPO Legislative Director Steve Lenkhart referred to the Five-Seven as “an assault rifle that fits in your pocket.”
If it was an assault rifle, then it would be fully automatic. The version sold to private citizens is not, of course, as it would be regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934 and thus unavailable to private citizens, like any fully automatic firearm made after 1968.
It is marketed by the company on its website as intended “to defeat the enemy in all close combat situations in urban areas, jungle conditions, night missions and any self defense action. Enemy personnel, even wearing body armor can be effectively engaged up to 200 meters. Kevlar® helmets and vests as well as the CRISAT protection will be penetrated.”
Well, no, the private citizen version of this pistol is not marketed in this fashion. The law enforcement and military version of this pistol is marketed this way. The Brady Campaign is not sensitive to market segments, however, activism is a global issue.
What does the ATF say?
FTB has also examined a 5.7 X 28 mm projectile that FN Herstal has designated the “SS196.” The SS196 is loaded with a Hornady 40 grain, jacketed lead bullet. FTB classified SS196 ammunition as not armor piercing ammunition under Federal firearms statutes.
According to FNH USA, FN Herstal tested the SS192 ammunition. SS192 ammunition did not penetrate the Level IIIA vests that were tested. FNH USA states that SS196, Hornady V-Max 40 gr. bullets fired from a 4-3/4 inch barrel did not penetrate the Level II vests that were used in testing.
FNH USA has informed FTB that SS192 is no longer imported for commercial sale to the United States and that commercial sales of 5.7 X 28mm ammunition are restricted to the SS196 (not armor piercing).
In my opinion, if you want a hot .22 pistol, there are certainly better choices than this expensive number with its expensive ammunition. Criminals and terrorists don't have a lot of money to spend on this crud when there are easier targets.
But to the Brady Campaign there is no easier target than guns it thinks no one should ever need. If you want to boil a frog, you turn the heat up slowly. They attack the .50 caliber guns and the hot .22s and continue working their way towards the middle, at which point no guns or ammunition would be legal.
If I was going to spend another $900 on a pistol, I'd get another 1911, probably a longslide in 10mm. If I had more than that to spend, I'd be getting a .50 GI. I'm not going to waste my time with a hot .22. There are far better target pistols and there are far better defensive pistols. This gun was targeted at people who like to have guns that look like what the professionals use.
Posted Thursday, Jan 27 2005 07:18 PM
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Despite BATFE reassurances (which I documented), the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has pressed their attack on the FN 5.7 pistol. “We are very grateful to Senators Lautenberg, Corzine and Schumer and Congressman Eliot Engel for introduc... [Read more]
Linked Friday, Mar 4 2005 05:14 PM
There are 29 comments on this entry.
Posted Friday, Mar 18 2005 03:54 AM
Thanks for real poop on this gun, not the brady retoric.
Posted Friday, Mar 18 2005 03:10 PM
i jsut checked this site and it say sail only to government or law enforcment only why the hell any one bitching about a gun specialy the the only ones who can buy them
Posted Tuesday, May 3 2005 09:50 AM
This is a fantastic gun that the bullet velocity is incredible. To state that its a hot .22 is rediculouse. Its more like a pistol version of a .223. The only rounds that are availible as armour peircing for this gun (I have done my research) are the SS190's. Even the SS192's are hollow point rounds that certainly are not armour peircing. They do however travel at the same velocity as the SS190's. I looked on the internet, just try to find a SS190 round for this gun, its like finding a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, IE: It aint gona happen.
Posted Friday, Jun 10 2005 12:44 PM
WOULDN'T OTHER PISTOL AMMUNITION BE JUST AS DEADLY AS THIS STUFF IS IF IT WAS ALSO MADE WITH POINTED BULLETS? SO WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL? PUT POINTED BULLETS IN A 9MM AND IT WOULD PROBABLY GO THROUGH KEVLAR TOO. YES? NO?
Posted Thursday, Aug 11 2005 01:48 PM
Yes, the 9mm in an armor pierce with plus p load would most likely go thought a vest. I don't plan on shooting police, a .17 would probably do the same, and the velocity of that small round is unbelievable It to is also available in a pistol. Just don’t have the high capacity magazine. But I do think its coming soon & amour pierce, just check out the spec sheets, every bit as deadly and accurate at the new FN 5.7 pistol if not more so and shoot for half the cost.
Posted Thursday, Aug 11 2005 10:56 PM
Remember that the legal standard for the term “armor piercing” is not whether it defeats a particular type of vest. I have posted the definition in the comments on the “FN57 Scare Tactics” follow-up.
Posted Friday, Aug 12 2005 07:04 AM
I am just learning about guns for collection, is it true that a gun loader person can make a bullet that could penetrate body armour? using example...9mm, .45cal,.38 or even ak47 ? how could you do that ? Is there any web site I could find about like this ? what ?
Posted Saturday, Sep 17 2005 02:09 PM
On the topic of the FN 5.7, the only round that is armor piercing is the SS190. Velocity at approx. 2133 fps. This round to my knowledge has not been tested by an American agency for it abilities. Though FN states it is capable of piercing armor at 200m, etc. from a sidearm. It is obtainable by agency purchase only through -http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_ammunition.html - Correct me if I'm wrong please.
Posted Thursday, Sep 22 2005 02:38 AM
One thing about the FN, I have one and I personally shot a level II police issued bullet proof vest with the legal SS-195 FN 5.7 ammunition. Guess what the result was? You're right, it penetrated the front panels and a few rounds even went through the rear (back) panels. No doubt, the over the counter ammo penetrates a police officers vest, no further discussion needed, its a fact, I saw it with my own eyes...
Posted Thursday, Oct 6 2005 03:10 AM
the rumor i heard was that border patrol called it in initially by popping several 192 rounds through not one, but two complete level 2a vests. has anyone else heard this rumor?
Posted Monday, Oct 31 2005 07:14 PM
regarding the5.7. the SS190 was seen being auctioned at gunbroker for $500 for 50 rounds. The SS192 and SS195 aare pretty much the same round. The commercial round is SS196.
Posted Sunday, Nov 27 2005 03:48 AM
I shot a level two vest with the 192 with 12 rounds. 12 for 12 pentrated the vest.
Posted Sunday, Dec 18 2005 02:59 PM
I can see most of you talk on technical data. Here is the truth. I currently owned a FN 5.7 x 28mm USG. When I took it to an Augusta, GA range to zero it, many where impress, most where shock. I must say, anybody who tries to buy one will send a red flag to ATF. You must have a special background or a good check to get one. I first saw one in Europe and have fired it (non-USG version), we fired the SS190 round at 50 meters at a 1 1/4 inch stainless steel metal sheet. It went thought easily. But this round is only for special unit? Not law enforcement or civilian use. I would not recommend this gun to anybody, since you must be able to know where the safety is and how to operate. Special training should be a requirement to any civilian how buy one.
I fired the SS196 round at 50 meter. The round had a flat trajectory and good shot group, due to the low recoiled. 100 meter shot was least than 1 to 2 inch radius. Most people think of using it here for personal defense. Me, I have my Baby Eagle 40 cal, I have the 5.7 for oversea duty
Posted Saturday, Jan 14 2006 07:29 PM
I have a USG, and am very familiar with the FiveSeven. I have shot SS192, SS195 and SS196 through it. The remarks about the recoil and accuracy are correct. The round is a very flat shooter. About shooting through a Level III with SS192 or SS195, nope, ain't gonna happen. Through a Level II from 5-10 feet, though, probably. The SS190 AP round has a steel core behind an aluminum partition. In SS192/195s the entire core of the round is aluminum. The VMAX bullets in SS196/197 are 30% heavier, and are of more traditional construction.
The PS90 will be available soon, and will shoot these rounds about another 200 feet a second faster. The more interesting aspect of this pistol, is the the round does not overpenetrate, making is somewhat safer for apartments and such when used for home defense.
Anyone interested in shall we say... more accurate, information may try www.fivesevenforum.com for a much more complete look at this weapon.
Posted Sunday, Feb 12 2006 08:20 PM
I AM INTERESTED TO BUY FN 57 PISTOL.
KINDLY GIVE ME MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS PISTOL ABOUT BUILT HOW MANY CAN LOAD IN MAGAZINE AND HOW MUCH MAXIMUM RANGE OF IT.
I AM WAITING FOR YOUR GOOD & PROMPT RESPONSE.
Posted Wednesday, Feb 22 2006 11:32 AM
Wow... so much misinformation...
Let's set a few things straight, and then go from there:
1. the SS190 AP ammo is ONLY available through a LE Letterhead, and even then, it is DIRECTLY dropshipped to the Agency. Dealers don't see the SS190 ammo.
2. You can make any round penetrate Body Armor, providing you have enought powder behind it, and you shape the bullet correctly.
3. You don't need any uber leet special background checks to purchase a 5.7 Pistol. If you can pass the standard 4473 Form, you're in business. The purchase also doesn't "flag" the ATF for two reasons.
1. When a Dealer calls in Form 4473, (the standard background check form for buyers) the NICs Center does NOT ask for the make/model/serial of the firearm. Just the type. Pistol or Long Gun. That's all the info they are interested in when it comes to the firearm in question.
2. The ATF could care less about something they classify as a "target/recreational" pistol.
4. What's this about having some sort of special skills to operate the safety on a 5.7? Jesus, the Baby eagle has a safety decocker, PLUS a safety. The 5.7 has one little lever. Safe and Not safe. Where the poster gets off saying that the 5.7 user must get some sort of special training, is beyond me.
5. How do i know all this? I have several 5.7's, a P90 (yes, the P90), and I am a class III A Dealer. I sell a lot of these pistols, and none of my customers have shot themselves in the foot yet, even though they lack this "special training" the poster suggested.
No One Special
Posted Tuesday, Apr 18 2006 11:07 AM
This gun is not all that great. Buy something like a Ruger P-95 in 9mm, nice American made gun. Probably works on the religion of peace just fine.
Posted Wednesday, Apr 19 2006 10:15 PM
A guy in my dept just got the 5.7, we took it out to our range. Using SS192 AP ammo we fired two rounds into a level II ballistic vest. neither round penetrated the vest. we're waiting for the SS190 to arrive so we can test it.
Posted Saturday, Jul 1 2006 11:15 PM
What is up with Carl. I think he may not be so truthfull. I own a 5.7 pistol and it is very easy to operate. No One Special is correct in everything he said.
Posted Thursday, Aug 3 2006 12:08 PM
I just bought one of these saturday. Paid 796.00 for the gun, and 18.00 a box per 50 for the ammo. Ammo is Hornday 40gr Vmax. Tried it at the range, impressed with recoil, mag capacity, and flat trajectory, and nothing else. Gun is somewhat clumsy in use, mag release is somewhat sticky, trigger is crap with lots of take up, and slide release is very tight. Will be sticking to my Glock 22.
Posted Monday, Jan 29 2007 11:49 PM
I own a FN Five Seven and a P90. I love them both. They are wonderful guns for women. I train with both guns all the time. I wouldn't carry anything but this gun. Light weight and shoots great.
Posted Wednesday, May 9 2007 12:59 PM
Follow up on ammo for the 5.7.
Just bought on GunBroker.com 2 lots of 2000 rounds each of the SS192 28gr hollow points for 665.00 per lot, + 25.00 shipping. Not a bad deal on a per box price.
Jamey L Ainsworth
Posted Friday, May 11 2007 11:12 AM
DONT REALLY KNOW ALL THE TECH TALK ABOUT THE 5.7X28,BUT DO HAVE THE PISTOL AS WELL AS THE PS90 AND CAN SAY THEY ARE FUN WEAPONS TO HAVE AND SHOT.THEY SEEM TO BE VERY ACCURATE AND LOW IN RECOIL.I USUALLY PREFER A GUN THAT GIVES ME A BIG KICK,BUT I REALLY ENJOY SHOOTING THESE WEAPONS.AMMO IS SOMETIMES HARD TO GET AT A GOOD PRICE BUT FOUND A SUPPLIER.CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT FNH COMES OUT WITH NEXT.
Posted Thursday, Jul 5 2007 07:41 AM
Today, I put a down payment on the FN 5.7 Pistol. The total price is $1075.00. not including tax. The box said $999.00 And when I asked the dealer at Gander Mountain it he said the price went up. Does anyone have a better source of purchasing the gun?
Posted Tuesday, Jul 10 2007 06:02 PM
I was just rolling around the internet and came across this page. Great stuff just one thing I felt obligated to correct. NFA weapons ARE NOT restricted to civilians. You can have almost anything in the book Machine Gun wise if was made prior to 1986 (sec 902a of the Gun Owners Protection Act signed by Reagen) and everything else no matter when it was made i.e. 40mm's, Suppressors, SBR's, and AOW's (grenades, pen guns, ect.) Just pay the $200 tax and pass a federal background check. This just means fingerprints and photos, nothing special. I own both the 5.7 and the PS90 great guns but expensive to shoot.
Just remember, the constitution says "you have the right to bear arms," not," you have the right to bear arms suitable for sporting purposes and approved by Sarah Brady." Thanks!
Posted Monday, Jul 30 2007 08:07 AM
I just bought 2 5.7's for $900 each plus tax. I am favorably impressed with them. They are definitely flat shooters, high velocity rounds with very little recoil. I normally shoot my .45 auto (nice stopping power). The only disappointment is the cost of ammunition. However, it's worth it! Anyone that calls this a hot .22, doesn't really understand ballistics or the 5.7 capability. Armor piercing? Who cares? I've only been robbed once and the crook wasn't wearing a vest ;)
The magazine release buttons on both of mine work great. The slide lock works smoothly, as does the easy to use safety.
ATF hasn't contacted me about my purchase. I simply walked in the gun shop provided them with my concealed carry permit, completed the necessary paperwork, paid the money and walked out.
Bottom line, it's a gun, a nice gun that's a lot of fun to shoot, and holds 20 rounds in the magazine. It's very accurate out the box; 2" spread at about 30'.
I still like my .45, my .357, my .320, my .38 special, and my .22's, but this is nice piece. Buy one or two before you don't have the option.....
Posted Thursday, Aug 23 2007 01:12 PM
I am a 9 year police officer. I am a Glock armorer/Firearms Instructor and carry a Glock 22 for duty use. Recently a co-worker purchased and recently qualified with a FNH57. The shot grouping was fantastic and he reports that its an extremely forgiving gun to shoot. Ill be picking up mine on Thursday. Ive shot every type and calibre pistol on earth with the exception of the FNH57. Im looking for US tests and balistic data. It has been tossed about, though informally, to allow this gun for duty use. I work in an urban environment in the mid-west. Does anyone have a lead on any Dept that has allowed this for duty use. Also, could the gallery lead me to some type of official LE testing, and/or contacts. Most especially official tests with level IIa vests. A great percentage of cops are shot with their own duty weapon. Basically, will my vest keep me from getting killed when a ground fight ensues and I lose my gun? Official responses only please. Send credentials and phone number to email@example.com.
Posted Saturday, Sep 8 2007 04:25 PM
NEED SUBSONIC 5.7 AMMO. JUST GOT A GEMTECH. PLEASE ANY HELP
Posted Thursday, Sep 13 2007 06:39 AM